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SIMON EMMET / TRUNK ARCHIVE

Steve Toussaint Is Fighting for Honor in House of the Dragon

The 61-year-old actor breaks down Corlys Velaryon’s rage, grief, and shifting priorities in the HBO hit’s darkest season yet.

BY WILLIAM GOODMAN

STEVE TOUSSAINT LOOKS calm, cool, and collected. It’s the end of June, and Europe is in the midst of a massive heat wave, with temperatures hitting record-breaking highs. He’s wearing a white tank top and wiping his brow with a cloth, but outside of that one simple adjustment, he never seems to break a sweat.

You could say the same of his House of the Dragon character. For a few seasons now, Lord Corlys Velaryon has been the coolest person in the room. Both in terms of his costuming—as the Lord of Driftmark, he might as well double as the Lord of Dripmark, since his outfits and even armor pop off the screen with a real bit of character—and his imperial demeanor. That is, until the start of season 3 and the show’s much-anticipated Battle of the Gullet. House showrunner Ryan Condal compared the famed naval battle to Helm’s Deep (from Lord of the Rings) in terms of its size, scale, and impact. He was correct to do so; the losses that came in the wake of the Gullet are of seismic scale, including the death of Jacaerys Velaryon (Harry Collet), son of Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen (Emma D’Arcy). And while Lord Corlys gets his revenge on Lohar (Abigail Thorn), the commander of the Triarchy fleet who was a particularly annoying thorn in his side, it came at the cost of losing his House—and almost his life.

With so much loss around him, Corlys’s priorities have shifted accordingly. The self-made man is now trying to ensure that his bastard children, Alyn (Abubakar Salim) and Addam (Clinton Liberty), are recognized by the crown as his heirs. But when Rhaenyra denies that request, it sends Corlys into a rightful fit of rage as he leaves King’s Landing on an unknown journey. It’s one of the few times we’ve seen the character lose his cool, but as a man with little—if anything—left to fight for, yelling at the queen is a risk he’s willing to take.

For Toussaint, the previous three episodes have provided the actor with a meaty and significant arc for the show’s stellar third season. Men’s Health sat down with Toussaint to talk about filming the Battle of the Gullet, the show taking on a darker tone, honor, ambition, and much more.

SIMON EMMET / TRUNK ARCHIVE

MEN’S HEALTH: Season 3 of House of the Dragon has been particularly bleak and nihilistic, even by the show’s already high standards. What was your reaction to that tonal shift?

STEVE TOUSSAINT: I think it was expected. One of the things Ryan [Condal] had said to me at the very beginning, when I first got this job and we were doing season 1, was “We want to meet the Sea Snake as a man who has everything, and we’re going to slowly, or not so slowly, strip everything away from him.”

Once I started reading the season 3 scripts, having lost my two children, my grandson, and then my wife last season, then seeing that they then destroyed his house, his home as well, I was kind of like, Okay, this is par for the course. I don’t know if he’s going to end up being a tramp or a man of the streets by the end of this thing. In that sense, it was expected, but it’s still surprising. Then it provides a challenge—an acting challenge. I was looking forward to it.

MH: What does that challenge look like for you? Is it finding levity in that?

ST: Sometimes it’s levity, but I’m trying to show other facets of this man’s character because, as we all know, we’re not all one thing. An awful lot of season 1 was him going, How can we get close to power? I'll get my son to marry the princess. He was tightly wound up, except for the moments when he was with his wife. What I was so keen about for the latter end of last season, and then this season, was how he grieved. Also, him having to show vulnerability, reaching out to his illegitimate children, and particularly with Alyn, played by Abu, who just wants nothing to do with him whatsoever. It’s a shock to him, because he’s a man everyone listens to and wants to be around.

When I read the scene just before the battle, when he’s in his cabin and apologizes for being a shitty dad, I was like, That’s a big deal for him to apologize—the only person he apologizes to is his wife, and now she’s no longer there. For him to show that kind of vulnerability…that was what excited me about this season.

MH: What was your reaction when you first heard about the Battle of the Gullet?

ST: It always felt in the distance. I knew there was going to be a battle. At one point, they were talking about shooting in South Africa, and that was more interesting to me than the actual battle itself. I was like, Oh, I’ve never been there before. That’d be great!

MH: Like Cape Town? [Note: Aquatic series like One Piece and Black Sails have shot at Cape Town Film Studios.]

ST: I have no idea. They just said South Africa. I just thought of sunshine and blue skies—it’d be great. Then it was going to be Wales. Eventually, [director] Loni [Peristere], Ryan, or someone said to me, “Oh, no, we’re going to do it on the back lot.” And I was like, “Oh, okay.” It was only when I read the actual scenes in the episodes that I then got an idea of the magnitude of what they were trying to do.

I asked Loni, “How are you going to do this?” Whenever I’ve heard about stuff being shot at sea or on the water, it’s always very difficult. We’ve all heard the stories about Waterworld. One of the things Loni said was, “Well, we’re going to take a look at the movie Master and Commander.”

It doesn’t matter what I’ve got. I’m still the man I always was, and I still command respect because I am true, I’m honest, and I have integrity.

MH: I was gonna ask—half-seriously and half-jokingly—how many times you watched Master and Commander before this.

ST: [Laughs] Just the once for me. I don’t know about Loni. We looked at that, and then Loni basically took me through what he wanted to shoot, all of the PreVis, all of the modeling. What was important was the emotional journey of each character through that battle. I remember asking if he had ever done anything like this before, and he reeled off a series of TV shows where he’d done the “Big Battle episode.” So, I knew we were in good hands. When I finally got to see it, it was like, Oh, wow. Yeah, you did it, man. You really did.

MH: When you spoke with us prior to season 1, you mentioned that you felt like ambition was Corlys’s driving force. Now in season 3, does that still ring true?

ST: No, I don’t think it does. He’s changed. That [ambition] is part of his core, so it’s always going to be there. It may be that he has ambition for other things. When we first meet him, he’s about glorifying himself. Of course, he loves his wife and so forth. But for me, what was key was the changing of the name of his ship in season 2 and the line that he says: “Well, everything I do now, I do for her.” In episode 2 of this season, he says those immortal lines, “If this be victory, I hope I never see another.” I like to think he’s reassessing what’s important—the cost of war, the cost of this vaulting ambition, which I think he feels has led to him losing his brother, for example.…

Somebody mentioned the scene in episode 2 where he’s on the beach with his family—his two illegitimate children, his granddaughter—and it occurred to me that’s what it is: his idea of family is different. Or how important they are to him, anyway. Before, I think he put everything into his relationship with Rhaenys. Whenever I looked at the scripts, that was the person he was most comfortable with, the person he was most himself with. Now she’s not there. Who’s he got? Now, he’s realizing the importance of family for the sake of family, as opposed to as a tool for furthering his ambition.

MH: Do you feel that Corlys would not have made those strides had he not been put into this survival mode?

ST: I think that’s true. The only other way he might’ve come to where he’s at would’ve been if his wife was alive. She’s the one that says to him, “You have

TOP: Toussaint as Corlys in a vital House of the Dragon scene in season 3, episode 1. OLLIE UPTON/HBO

BOTTOM: Corlys meets with Rhaenyra (Emma D’Arcy) in House of the Dragon season 3, episode 3. OLLIE UPTON/HBO

to make good with these two boys. It’s not their fault.” He takes her advice. I often say he doesn’t always take her advice immediately. He’s like, “Yeah, whatever.” And then eventually he sort of goes, “Yeah, you were right, and I will do that.”

MH: Typical man thing, candidly.

ST: [Laughs] Yeah, exactly. I think that’s the only other way he might have come to this conclusion. He’s shaped by events and what he’s been through, and having to reassess what he feels is a great sacrifice for not really much reward is bringing him to this way of thinking that I think progresses through this season.

MH: The scene you and Abu have in the captain’s cabin, to me, feels like the Rosetta stone for Corlys’s arc this season. What do you remember from shooting that scene?

ST: We were talking about the scene for a while before we shot it. We have a month of not quite rehearsals, but conversations: We come, we all meet, we read an episode, and then we discuss what the scenes mean. That was, as you said, the Rosetta stone; it was the seismic moment for Corlys, because he has to show vulnerability. He has to then apologize, which is a thing he doesn’t do, other than to his wife. He doesn’t have to. He’s rich, he’s powerful, and he’s respected. But he has to.

One of the things I like about the scene is that Corlys sees himself in Alyn. That stems from that scene in season 2 where Alyn tells him how he feels about him, how it felt to grow up, and so on. All Corlys can do is stand there and take it. There’s a respect between them. Certainly from Corlys’s point, anyway.

It was wonderful. I don’t know how many times we shot it, but it was fun because we were always trying to find new things. For me, with a scene, you try to imagine what happens just before the scene. What was Corlys doing before he called him in? Was he rehearsing this speech? Did he know he was going to apologize? All those things are decisions that you make, and they all can change the nuance of the way you play it. We were lucky in that you couldn’t want a better scene partner in Abu, and also in the fact that Loni was open to giving us the space to navigate through it. I’m really, really happy with that scene.

MH: On the subject of directors, anytime I see an episode is directed by Clare Kilner, I’m locked in. There are lots of great directors over the course of Thrones—Miguel Sapochnik, Alan Taylor, Loni—but I just love her work. I wanted to give you a space to talk about what she brings to the table as a director and what it’s like working with her.

ST: It’s an absolute dream to work with her. She’s one of the best. None of the directors are bad, that’s not what I’m saying, but she has a wonderful feel for human connection.

One of the things I often say about the show when people ask, “Why is it successful?” may well be that, despite the fact that there are dragons and all this huge stuff, it’s always about interpersonal relationships. If you understand that, then you have something successful. Then we can enjoy the dragons and all that other stuff, too.

MH: After Corlys and Rhaenyra have that big fight in episode 3, and he leaves, he leaves as a man who ostensibly has nothing left. What does that mean for Corlys moving forward? Everyone on the show has lost a lot, but I feel he’s lost the most.

ST: Liberating is not quite the right word, but the only thing that he’s concerned about when he leaves is that he wants to make sure his son is set up. That’s it. Addam apparently is, because he’s a dragonrider—so he should be okay. But he needs to make sure Alyn is set up, too. Other than that, I don’t think he gives a shit about them. When I read that scene, I remember thinking, His brother was killed for saying that. Now, I don’t know that Corlys has a death wish. I think Corlys has a very strong idea of his position, what he’s done, and that’s almost what that scene is. It’s like, “I dare you to contradict me.”

One of the things I think motors him through the rest of that season is this sense of rage and indignation, of how much he sacrificed and what he’s got in return. For him, that request, recognize my boys…it’s not a big deal. I recognize your two sons as mine, and everybody knew there was no way that they were Velaryon, but I did it anyway. There’s this sense of rage and just the idea of the futility of all of this. That’s the journey he’s on.

IMON EMMET / TRUNK ARCHIVE

MH: What does honor look like for Corlys at this point?

ST: Honor is still all-important to him. It’s why it’s important he gives the boys his name, because that’s all you have. It doesn’t matter. All of the stuff in the Hall of Nine, he loved that because that said who he was. But if you don’t have your word, you’re nothing. I don’t think that ever changes for him. It doesn’t matter what I’ve got. I’m still the man I always was, and I still command respect because I am true, I’m honest, and I have integrity.

MH: That’s quite a journey for him, to go from a self-made person to striving for the one thing you can’t get for yourself.

ST: Absolutely. It’s because of the journey he’s been on that he’s found himself here. Four months before this battle, he would’ve been like, No, you go out, you get things, and those things build you up because the sum of all these things that make me the man that I am. Well, now he’s seeing that those things, while they’re nice, they’re not that important. It’s like actors and awards. They’re lovely, but winning one doesn’t make you a good actor. It’s the same thing. Sort of [laughs].

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.